Roman
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Post by Roman on Dec 20, 2020 10:18:01 GMT -5
I also think it's a matter of mentality and culture. The moment you tell a (Western) European they can not do something, they will give you the finger and are tempted to do the opposite of what you want. Draconian measures like in China would not go over well. Not even the military could contain such problems. Cultural differences are also important. Certain groups of people are used to sticking together with large families. The same groups are often lower class and more prone to rebel against authority. A country like France has the biggest problem in that department. But The Netherlands and Germany also have those problems. So it depends on people's trust in a government? If you reap the benefits of living in a certain place, it's almost common courtesy to adhere to something like Covid lockdowns and restrictions. The same reason taxes are a thing. Even for the family-oriented cultures, wouldn't it be in their best interest to support such intervention to protect their family members? (I'm not accusing anything, just trying to understand) Maybe due to the fortune I've had of "being on the other side of the virus", my perspective is not as broad. I guess I'm wondering whether the reality is that some countries will treat the pandemic as everyday living until a vaccine hits??🤯🤯🤯 Do people still consider it a pandemic or just go about life normally and hope they don't contract it?? Italy had draconian measures but no one here has really been following the issue since then as other than international travel, it's more of a past issue than a current one for us...again no disrespect, just very interesting to observe the vast range of responses to the pandemic.. It's tough to pinpoint the issues, because it differs from country to country, from region to region and group to group. One would definitely hope people would use common sense and make an effort to protect themselves and people around them. Unsurprisingly too many people don't think that way. With every loosening of restrictions, people go out like there's no tomorrow. It's quite frustrating for people who really give it their best shot to protect others. I'll give you a few examples of problems.
Italy had a really strict lockdown in March. It worked, because people immediately understood how serious it was. Seeing people around you dying will wake you up. It showed that such an approach really worked. But I wouldn't call it draconian measures. People were at home and only were allowed to get some groceries or other necessities during a certain timeframe. It's a sacrifice, but that's still very humane compared to China. In China they track you and if you don't obey, you will be picked up by the police or military. Italy did good over the summer and even a bit after that. But now they are in deep trouble again.
Trust in government is important indeed. In that category you have many people treating the measures like it's a way of the government to restrict people, influence them, have it out for them. You could also see the "independent" people in this category. They have an attitude like "I decide what I'm going to do, not the government". One step further you have the conspiracy people who think the government really wants to harm you and COVID is made up or an excuse to control you.
The family-oriented cultures often have a religious and/or a migrant background. They don't want to give up their rituals and habits. Additional problem is they're often lower class and live close together in seperated neighborhoods. Many of them also don't trust the government or police. That's why I used France as an example. Especially in the cities there are large groups of people with Northern-African heritage. Even outside of COVID they cause trouble and fight the police. In The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany we have those groups too.
Then there's the group of young people. They refuse to get their life restricted. Most of them argue that they won't die from COVID, so why should they restrict their life. They want to socialize, travel, party, go to school normally. Needless to say they fail to see the bigger picture of infecting others. Not to mention even young people can get seriously ill. They don't realize that unless they get sick themselves or lose loved ones.
Lastly there's a group of older wealthy people. They are used to luxury and freedom. Regularly they are retired and enjoy to socialize and travel. Often they don't enjoy to be in crowded places. So they feel safe doing their thing as a couple and in small groups of friends. But because they still hang out and go on vacation, it can still backfire.
Personally I think they should've closed schools much sooner. Kids and teenagers probably spread the virus alot at school and in families. The main reason the government does not close schools is the problem it causes for working parents. Some politicians argued it would hold back children. But during these times they could easily extend their time in school.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 11:03:32 GMT -5
Roman gotta be honest, do you really trust China's assessment of this virus? like... they are a communist government. I don't trust Russia's numbers or NK trying forever to say they didn't even have it. These governments are corrupt and really shouldn't be used as a standard. For virus control, New Zealand and Aussie ARE the real standards. And a huge part of that was stopping travel. Like in America here, one of the biggest things I see is people travelling out of their lockdowned states to OTHER ones and ending up bringing more of it to where they are. And it is just maddening. But it is hard to close the borders of every "state". Especially ones like stupid Idaho who resist everything. lol.
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Post by SydneyPaige on Dec 20, 2020 11:08:35 GMT -5
Hey everyone,
Not to put a stop to the covid discussion but I am going to ask you to please be very careful when posting about it and making sure you’re sources are legit. Pro boards has a policy in place to stop the misinformation of Covid news and if they think we’re spreading wrong information they could shut us down.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 11:11:47 GMT -5
So it depends on people's trust in a government? If you reap the benefits of living in a certain place, it's almost common courtesy to adhere to something like Covid lockdowns and restrictions. The same reason taxes are a thing. Even for the family-oriented cultures, wouldn't it be in their best interest to support such intervention to protect their family members? (I'm not accusing anything, just trying to understand) Maybe due to the fortune I've had of "being on the other side of the virus", my perspective is not as broad. I guess I'm wondering whether the reality is that some countries will treat the pandemic as everyday living until a vaccine hits??🤯🤯🤯 Do people still consider it a pandemic or just go about life normally and hope they don't contract it?? Italy had draconian measures but no one here has really been following the issue since then as other than international travel, it's more of a past issue than a current one for us...again no disrespect, just very interesting to observe the vast range of responses to the pandemic.. It's tough to pinpoint the issues, because it differs from country to country, from region to region and group to group. One would definitely hope people would use common sense and make an effort to protect themselves and people around them. Unsurprisingly too many people don't think that way. With every loosening of restrictions, people go out like there's no tomorrow. It's quite frustrating for people who really give it their best shot to protect others. I'll give you a few examples of problems.
Italy had a really strict lockdown in March. It worked, because people immediately understood how serious it was. Seeing people around you dying will wake you up. It showed that such an approach really worked. But I wouldn't call it draconian measures. People were at home and only were allowed to get some groceries or other necessities during a certain timeframe. It's a sacrifice, but that's still very humane compared to China. In China they track you and if you don't obey, you will be picked up by the police or military. Italy did good over the summer and even a bit after that. But now they are in deep trouble again.
Trust in government is important indeed. In that category you have many people treating the measures like it's a way of the government to restrict people, influence them, have it out for them. You could also see the "independent" people in this category. They have an attitude like "I decide what I'm going to do, not the government". One step further you have the conspiracy people who think the government really wants to harm you and COVID is made up or an excuse to control you.
The family-oriented cultures often have a religious and/or a migrant background. They don't want to give up their rituals and habits. Additional problem is they're often lower class and live close together in seperated neighborhoods. Many of them also don't trust the government or police. That's why I used France as an example. Especially in the cities there are large groups of people with Northern-African heritage. Even outside of COVID they cause trouble and fight the police. In The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany we have those groups too.
Then there's the group of young people. They refuse to get their life restricted. Most of them argue that they won't die from COVID, so why should they restrict their life. They want to socialize, travel, party, go to school normally. Needless to say they fail to see the bigger picture of infecting others. Not to mention even young people can get seriously ill. They don't realize that unless they get sick themselves or lose loved ones.
Lastly there's a group of older wealthy people. They are used to luxury and freedom. Regularly they are retired and enjoy to socialize and travel. Often they don't enjoy to be in crowded places. So they feel safe doing their thing as a couple and in small groups of friends. But because they still hang out and go on vacation, it can still backfire.
Personally I think they should've closed schools much sooner. Kids and teenagers probably spread the virus alot at school and in families. The main reason the government does not close schools is the problem it causes for working parents. Some politicians argued it would hold back children. But during these times they could easily extend their time in school.
the thing of schools: YES. I'm sorry, I mean I managed to find a good way this semester and next to do all my classes online. School has always been a petridish for any virus. most students will go to class sick. There were parents in Idaho who said they'd send their kid to school anyway. People in America will often treat school like free daycare. Kind of frustrating and just another American problem the government don't fix lol. I don't know. The last "pandemic" that really went through here was the Swine flu, which my disabled slowly dying anyway brother got and died. Because the hospice nurse came to work sick with something. So we all got it. And I guess considering my brother died then, I understood how awful it can be, and I have sincerely done my best I can and I have avoided a lot of human and friend contact this year, because god forbid I kill someone else's brother or my own family. I do wonder if the illness I had back in February/March WAS covid...the antibody test is kind of a coin flip (but I took it when it was here...and I am phobic of needles. So I cared to try and find out lol). But this illness gave me symptoms from late Feb to the first week of April. I wish I was joking. There had been someone coughing in my class and now I think about it a lot... XD It was some of the weirdest stuff I ever felt. My brother got through okay, mom did ok, grandpa had it forever like I did. but since then all I've caught are little things, head cold, 1 24 hour stomach virus, and the actual flu. But I have been tested and every test has come back negative, and I got negative on the antibody test. I took the antibody test thinking that illness I had was probably in fact covid. But I hear it was very hard for them to detect it if you hadn't just got over your symptoms. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 11:12:47 GMT -5
Hey everyone, Not to put a stop to the covid discussion but I am going to ask you to please be very careful when posting about it and making sure you’re sources are legit. Pro boards has a policy in place to stop the misinformation of Covid news and if they think we’re spreading wrong information they could shut us down. thanks for the notice. Thankfully none of us are calling covid a conspiracy...I think I might have to slap someone if I heard that. XD proboards unnecessary  |
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Roman
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Post by Roman on Dec 20, 2020 11:21:46 GMT -5
Roman gotta be honest, do you really trust China's assessment of this virus? like... they are a communist government. I don't trust Russia's numbers or NK trying forever to say they didn't even have it. These governments are corrupt and really shouldn't be used as a standard. For virus control, New Zealand and Aussie ARE the real standards. And a huge part of that was stopping travel. Like in America here, one of the biggest things I see is people travelling out of their lockdowned states to OTHER ones and ending up bringing more of it to where they are. And it is just maddening. But it is hard to close the borders of every "state". Especially ones like stupid Idaho who resist everything. lol. True. I don’t think China is entirely transparent. It was suspicious that they had it under control that fast and especially that there were no setbacks. But in general I think we would know if the virus was still raging over there like in other countries. And in fairness. China has a lot of inhabitants and busy cities. So they did a good job. |
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Roman
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Post by Roman on Dec 20, 2020 11:24:06 GMT -5
Hey everyone, Not to put a stop to the covid discussion but I am going to ask you to please be very careful when posting about it and making sure you’re sources are legit. Pro boards has a policy in place to stop the misinformation of Covid news and if they think we’re spreading wrong information they could shut us down. thanks for the notice. Thankfully none of us are calling covid a conspiracy...I think I might have to slap someone if I heard that. XD proboards unnecessary They probably won’t really read it. But it’s possible they screen for certain keywords. Let’s hope they’re not as silly as other platforms. On Youtube you get demonetized or your videos even get deleted when you use words like pandemic or COVID... |
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Post by TaylorSwiftFan on Dec 20, 2020 21:12:04 GMT -5
I! HATE! LOCKDOWN!! It's looking likely that we're going into permanent lockdown in the UK until at least the end of January, potentially longer. I won't have seen my friends in a year or my nephews in over a year. I'm sick of this. I'm going to do the right thing obviously, but I'm just tired of missing out on life because of the incompetence of our 'leaders'. It’s not good of course. But I don’t think you can blame the leaders that much. The virus is hard to contain. Sure, some things could’ve been handled better. But hardly any country has been successful in battling the virus. Predominantly that’s because of the behavior of people. It’s terrible that even hard lockdowns only work moderately because too many people refuse to protect themselves and others. Some people just don't listen. I think my (air quotes) sister is a Trumper (this is just a joke by the way and it's not meant to be really political - she just doesn't seem to care much about the virus like Trump). She doesn't watch the news on TV, so obviously she's going to think what she wants about it all and she probably thinks it's all b*llsh*t when it isn't. It's sad but there are still people who don't believe the virus even when they are sick and dying in a hospital with it themselves. Even the virus affecting a person who doesn't believe in it doesn't change their mind. |
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Post by TaylorSwiftFan on Dec 20, 2020 21:15:17 GMT -5
I'm just going to reiterate what I told Richard when we were making these comparisons. I was trying to understand why the UK was still struggling with the virus. I expect negligence from certain governments, but I had expected Europe to get somewhat of a hold on things by now. I am aware that there is a very big difference in population density compared to here, but after discussing it, I don't believe this is the prime issue. I imagine that being in this situation for so long, it's hard to believe that some parts of the world are functioning almost to the point they were before the virus hit, but that's it (though more hygiene/safety measures are in place). To put it in perspective, I actually had to think to try and remember when our lockdown ended. I believe it was June. For the three months prior to that, the country was a complete ghost town. No business was open other than essential services. If you broke Covid rules, you were apprehended. The Prime Minister laid down the law and declared a country-wide lockdown, which was only (gradually) lifted under the guidance of the health ministers. Victoria, our southern state, was hit very hard and required a second lockdown, again, like a ghost town, and masks became mandatory across the state. There has been a small outbreak in Sydney (which is the one Mew is referring to) which has had an immediate response of lockdown. During this period, our state borders were closed and have only opened recently, which also helped contain the virus. New Zealand (whose government also applied strict measures) had an outbreak a few months ago, after being clean for 100 days or so. So the virus is not gone, but it is now manageable, and no longer a public danger like earlier in the year. Life feels 'normal' again. Pubs have been open for a long time, I went to an amusement park not long ago, and a group of about 50 of us caught the ferry and spent the day at the beach together the other weekend. All completely safe. And I don't say it to rub it in, but despite the world's current state, some places have been successful (for the past six months no less). The bottom line is, Emma is right, regardless of people's behaviour, the government needs to put their foot down and implement the same restrictions. I am grateful every day that I happen to live in a place that did that, which, ignorant me, assumed other governments would follow suit, but unfortunately that's not the case. From my perspective it's bizarre. I heard somewhere that a country was having concerts recently but I don't remember where. |
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Post by TaylorSwiftFan on Dec 20, 2020 21:19:02 GMT -5
I'm just going to reiterate what I told Richard when we were making these comparisons. I was trying to understand why the UK was still struggling with the virus. I expect negligence from certain governments, but I had expected Europe to get somewhat of a hold on things by now. I am aware that there is a very big difference in population density compared to here, but after discussing it, I don't believe this is the prime issue. I imagine that being in this situation for so long, it's hard to believe that some parts of the world are functioning almost to the point they were before the virus hit, but that's it (though more hygiene/safety measures are in place). To put it in perspective, I actually had to think to try and remember when our lockdown ended. I believe it was June. For the three months prior to that, the country was a complete ghost town. No business was open other than essential services. If you broke Covid rules, you were apprehended. The Prime Minister laid down the law and declared a country-wide lockdown, which was only (gradually) lifted under the guidance of the health ministers. Victoria, our southern state, was hit very hard and required a second lockdown, again, like a ghost town, and masks became mandatory across the state. There has been a small outbreak in Sydney (which is the one Mew is referring to) which has had an immediate response of lockdown. During this period, our state borders were closed and have only opened recently, which also helped contain the virus. New Zealand (whose government also applied strict measures) had an outbreak a few months ago, after being clean for 100 days or so. So the virus is not gone, but it is now manageable, and no longer a public danger like earlier in the year. Life feels 'normal' again. Pubs have been open for a long time, I went to an amusement park not long ago, and a group of about 50 of us caught the ferry and spent the day at the beach together the other weekend. All completely safe. And I don't say it to rub it in, but despite the world's current state, some places have been successful (for the past six months no less). The bottom line is, Emma is right, regardless of people's behaviour, the government needs to put their foot down and implement the same restrictions. I am grateful every day that I happen to live in a place that did that, which, ignorant me, assumed other governments would follow suit, but unfortunately that's not the case. From my perspective it's bizarre. That's why I said hardly any countries succeeded. China is probably the country that succeeded the most. Australia / New Zealand come next. But you guys have a few big advantages. There are more people living in the BeNeLux than on your continent. Another big advantage is border policy. It's easy to shut down or regulate the people going in and out of the country. You guys already do that very well outside of COVID. Europe is the entire opposite in that department. There are no borders and people are used to traveling across the continent frequently. Also the weather is an important factor. Over the summer most countries were okay. But as soon as the weather changed, infections accelerated.
I also think it's a matter of mentality and culture. The moment you tell a (Western) European they can not do something, they will give you the finger and are tempted to do the opposite of what you want. Draconian measures like in China would not go over well. Not even the military could contain such problems. Cultural differences are also important. Certain groups of people are used to sticking together with large families. The same groups are often lower class and more prone to rebel against authority. A country like France has the biggest problem in that department. But The Netherlands and Germany also have those problems. I agree with Emma, that the UK could've done better because they are an island. But it's quite crowded. Big city areas will always start a new wave of infections. And there has been too much traveling from and to the European mainland. Brexit needs to hurry up  Seriously, last night there have been some travel bans regarding the UK. Let's see how that works out. And they gave it to the world.  I haven't heard a lot about different countries in the world like the news used to cover when the pandemic was new, but I haven't heard much about China in months and if they are locked down or what. |
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Roman
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Post by Roman on Dec 21, 2020 3:33:05 GMT -5
That's why I said hardly any countries succeeded. China is probably the country that succeeded the most. Australia / New Zealand come next. But you guys have a few big advantages. There are more people living in the BeNeLux than on your continent. Another big advantage is border policy. It's easy to shut down or regulate the people going in and out of the country. You guys already do that very well outside of COVID. Europe is the entire opposite in that department. There are no borders and people are used to traveling across the continent frequently. Also the weather is an important factor. Over the summer most countries were okay. But as soon as the weather changed, infections accelerated.
I also think it's a matter of mentality and culture. The moment you tell a (Western) European they can not do something, they will give you the finger and are tempted to do the opposite of what you want. Draconian measures like in China would not go over well. Not even the military could contain such problems. Cultural differences are also important. Certain groups of people are used to sticking together with large families. The same groups are often lower class and more prone to rebel against authority. A country like France has the biggest problem in that department. But The Netherlands and Germany also have those problems. I agree with Emma, that the UK could've done better because they are an island. But it's quite crowded. Big city areas will always start a new wave of infections. And there has been too much traveling from and to the European mainland. Brexit needs to hurry up Seriously, last night there have been some travel bans regarding the UK. Let's see how that works out. And they gave it to the world. I haven't heard a lot about different countries in the world like the news used to cover when the pandemic was new, but I haven't heard much about China in months and if they are locked down or what. Yeah. China hasn’t locked down. People are living pretty normal again. Some wear masks and distance. Only if there’s a small local breakout again they take extra measures quickly. Of course we don’t know how reliable the news is. But I suspect they are not in big trouble like other countries. |
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Post by taytaytay on Dec 21, 2020 7:01:24 GMT -5
Yeah, we've got travel bans with large parts of Europe now and our main port is closed because of the mutation they found coming from Kent. It's actually quite concerning as we might now face some genuine food shortages.
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Post by Mew™ on Dec 21, 2020 19:12:05 GMT -5
No, I'm not bowling tonight. No, you didn't hear me on the stream. I'm home in bed because I'm sick. No I don't know what the team is doing for quarters tonight, I'm not there. No I don't know why people aren't wearing their masks the right way in the bowling alley. I don't control other people's stupidity. I'm sitting at home. In bed. Watching my teammates bowl because I can't because I'm like 99% sure I'd test positive if I got tested. I would greatly appreciate you stop ASKING ME STUPID QUESTIONS. F**K!
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Post by SomeFearlessChick on Dec 28, 2020 7:24:12 GMT -5
The more I read, the more I watch, the more I learn, the more I hate rich people. I hate the entire concept of hoarding money. I hate rich people "problems". I hate that I may never be able to afford a modest home for myself but boomers can afford their fifth, sixth, seventh+ investment property. And I hate that a lot of the time, our own people vote in governments that meticulously plan how to continue this vicious cycle.
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Post by taytaytay on Dec 28, 2020 7:51:24 GMT -5
The more I read, the more I watch, the more I learn, the more I hate rich people. I hate the entire concept of hoarding money. I hate rich people "problems". I hate that I may never be able to afford a modest home for myself but boomers can afford their fifth, sixth, seventh+ investment property. And I hate that a lot of the time, our own people vote in governments that meticulously plan how to continue this vicious cycle. A lot of people aspire to be rich, so they vote in the interests of the rich without voting to help themselves in their current situation. It drives me insane. |
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Seriously, last night there have been some travel bans regarding the UK. Let's see how that works out. 
